tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7637960526696603209.post6372409347717888796..comments2023-11-23T02:12:35.461-08:00Comments on <center>las vegas law blog</center>: RIP Jacob Hafterlaw.dawghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12091995027411414418noreply@blogger.comBlogger86125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7637960526696603209.post-19806375090028529902018-04-23T09:20:10.580-07:002018-04-23T09:20:10.580-07:00Hey everyone! Thanks for your comments. We'r...Hey everyone! Thanks for your comments. We're going to go ahead and lock this one down. If you want to continue discussions, please feel free to comment in the most current positing.Quickdraw McLawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10702670771440571011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7637960526696603209.post-31064766225145890652018-04-23T08:50:30.517-07:002018-04-23T08:50:30.517-07:00You're pathetic, 9:20You're pathetic, 9:20Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7637960526696603209.post-75049355764762224932018-04-22T21:20:13.286-07:002018-04-22T21:20:13.286-07:00for his children for sure. His wife, not so much....for his children for sure. His wife, not so much. She was divorcing him anyway.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7637960526696603209.post-48529844033398840502018-04-22T16:23:49.212-07:002018-04-22T16:23:49.212-07:00Which degenerate causes did he champion?Which degenerate causes did he champion?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7637960526696603209.post-42361767109091111152018-04-22T15:53:05.068-07:002018-04-22T15:53:05.068-07:00does that matter legally or otherwise?does that matter legally or otherwise?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7637960526696603209.post-4908658889679759292018-04-22T14:59:30.472-07:002018-04-22T14:59:30.472-07:00there are two. She filed first. He counter filed....there are two. She filed first. He counter filed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7637960526696603209.post-18814477980956379112018-04-22T11:53:48.451-07:002018-04-22T11:53:48.451-07:00the court records show that he filed for divorce, ...the court records show that he filed for divorce, not his wife. At least, he's listed as plaintiff. I think that the people who write there were many things going on and that we, as lawyers, need to judge less and help more are right. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7637960526696603209.post-25974249337885943332018-04-22T10:53:40.908-07:002018-04-22T10:53:40.908-07:00When something like this happens, there are typica...When something like this happens, there are typically far more things going on in the person's life and mind than we will ever know. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7637960526696603209.post-91183407443452850402018-04-22T10:34:21.533-07:002018-04-22T10:34:21.533-07:00Who hurt you, 9:32? Was it the person who urinated...Who hurt you, 9:32? Was it the person who urinated in your kosher Corn Flakes?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7637960526696603209.post-28379261455424974772018-04-22T09:32:04.231-07:002018-04-22T09:32:04.231-07:00It’s really not that hard to understand actually.
...It’s really not that hard to understand actually.<br /><br />Jay was living a lie; he tricked himself into believing he was a truth warrior fighting for justice, but in reality he was a great negative force burning though society, destroying everything he came into contact with.<br /><br />He could live with himself while the rewards kept piling up, but the loss of his bar license, litigation from former clients, and a divorce filing finally exposed Jay to himself, and he couldn’t face reality.<br /><br />It is a heavy load to carry, deceiving oneself. Don’t discount the toll that Jay’s charade of championing prisoner’s demanding kosher food or other degenerate causes had on the man himself.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7637960526696603209.post-66462420155534792052018-04-21T19:36:51.769-07:002018-04-21T19:36:51.769-07:00I would infer that between having no clients, bein...I would infer that between having no clients, being evicted from his office, the New Jersey bar suspending him for 6 months just a few weeks ago, some personal law suits against him, and then his wife dumping him was probably the last straw. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7637960526696603209.post-26424165736869718162018-04-21T19:33:00.622-07:002018-04-21T19:33:00.622-07:00This is just awful. I did not know Jacob personall...This is just awful. I did not know Jacob personally. We were friends on Facebook and I read some of the moronic & possibly biased media accounts of his professional and quasi personal trials and tribulations. He seemed like a decent guy and from reading this board it sounds like he was a zealous advocate and an intelligent attorney. I wished I had known he was suffering so much. I would have attempted some type of intervention or help. Michael Katzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04320272533544897533noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7637960526696603209.post-52006077397453913272018-04-21T19:29:36.832-07:002018-04-21T19:29:36.832-07:00And what is the probative value of that statement?...And what is the probative value of that statement? Can you elaborate? Are you inferring that his wife filing for divorce caused him to commit suicide? <br />Michael Katzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04320272533544897533noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7637960526696603209.post-90407302290050872212018-04-21T15:36:21.547-07:002018-04-21T15:36:21.547-07:00We have such a stringent test on ethical and moral...We have such a stringent test on ethical and moral character in our profession. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7637960526696603209.post-65473685038817466562018-04-20T22:08:33.303-07:002018-04-20T22:08:33.303-07:00Apparently, his wife filed for divorce on Monday. ...Apparently, his wife filed for divorce on Monday. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7637960526696603209.post-44923529878414088522018-04-20T20:25:38.782-07:002018-04-20T20:25:38.782-07:00Anyone who is seriously concerned about disparitie...Anyone who is seriously concerned about disparities could petition the NSC to adopt some kind of penalty guidelines with a point system like the feds and some states use for criminal sentencing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7637960526696603209.post-13838574404403106922018-04-20T20:23:54.405-07:002018-04-20T20:23:54.405-07:00Lawyers #2 and #4 violated 8.4(b), committing a cr...Lawyers #2 and #4 violated 8.4(b), committing a criminal act that reflects adversely on honesty or trustworthiness. The others only violated 8.4(c), non-criminal conduct involving dishonesty. I would expect a harsher penalty for the first kind of violation. No weird disparity here.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7637960526696603209.post-42587411098325450922018-04-20T18:00:56.540-07:002018-04-20T18:00:56.540-07:00Also wildly disparate: life.
Law and mathematics.....Also wildly disparate: life.<br />Law and mathematics...and never the twain shall meet.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7637960526696603209.post-74937147195995331402018-04-20T17:46:59.898-07:002018-04-20T17:46:59.898-07:00No question. But is the sanction for lying under ...No question. But is the sanction for lying under oath 12 months or 5 years? What if the lie was not under oath? We all deal with clients everyday who make mistakes: some intentionally, some willfully, some negligently. We expect to be able to know what the probably sanction is for conduct. We want consistency and predictability.<br /><br />To say that it is fair and consistent that:<br /> ---->Attorney A lies under oath to Metro, the Bar and to the Court for selfish reason, is on her 5th disciplinary case and did no mitigation deserves 12 months while <br /> ----> Attorney B lies but not under oath to protect clients for her first disciplinary case, who has 9 mitigating factors and who was told by the State Bar that if she cooperates the sanction would be 18-24 months deserves 53 months <br /><br />is wildly disparate and destroys any sense that there is reasonableness or predictability to discipline. No one is arguing that the State Bar is not right to prosecute and discipline both of these cases. That is the red herring is that a number of posters put forth the red herring that the issue is whether there should be discipline or not. The issue is that discipline is wildly disparate in how it is meted out.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7637960526696603209.post-29599300616314924052018-04-20T17:15:18.701-07:002018-04-20T17:15:18.701-07:00The profession of law requires a very high ethical...The profession of law requires a very high ethical and moral character. Lying under oath does not exactly meet that requirement.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7637960526696603209.post-27356646073242065082018-04-20T15:27:05.915-07:002018-04-20T15:27:05.915-07:0012:38-- Here is the problem with your analysis-- s...12:38-- Here is the problem with your analysis-- standards for discipline say that we punish the conduct and not whether it resulted in criminal prosecution. The stsndards for discipline are wildly different (or at least supposed to be wildly different). To say well a 12 month suspension for lying to Metro, the State Bar and the Court and a 53 month suspension for lying to a non-governmental trade organization are both fair because they both are suspensions is frankly ridiculous.<br /><br />@2:09-- No one (least of all me) is blaming the discipline process for causing the suicide. Discipline is a necessary part of the regulation of the profession. If Hafter's case, it was fair to go through the discipline process. There is a difference between identifying causation and casting blame. What I DO blame the State Bar and our profession for is the lack of any support network for those people who we suspend, meaning put in the penalty box. What I DO blame the State Bar and our profession for is the lack of any support network for those people who we suspend, meaning put in the penalty box. We presumably want to bring these attorneys back, rehabilitated and ready to practice. We do nothing in that regard. The blame is not on the discipline side here but it is on the profession side. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7637960526696603209.post-42967768402813844812018-04-20T14:09:42.984-07:002018-04-20T14:09:42.984-07:00@ 9:59 - law dog respectfully asked that the comme...@ 9:59 - law dog respectfully asked that the comments remain respectful. It appears that is occurring. However, now you post a comment that seeks to blame others - those involved in the Nevada disciplinary proceeding - for his decision to end his life. Those involved in that process - and there were many - are likely struggling with this tragic loss as well and are likely already grieving in their own way. But, a man can not dig a hole in life and then blame others when he falls in that hole. If the Nevada disciplinary process tipped him over the edge, blame should not be cast on those who were required to prosecute the issues in that proceeding, the witnesses involved, or the decision makers involved. He made his decisions in life, up to the end. It is horrid for his family. Most attorneys who are suspended do not take their own life. Jacob was found to have engaged in serious conduct, yet the state bar likely saw the good things in him that you mentioned, he was zealous for example - and they gave him a time out but he could have returned to practice. It is human nature to want to blame, but those who commit suicide are deeply troubled and this situation should remind us all that if we suspect one of our friends, colleagues or neighbors needs help do something to help. The practice of law is stressful, especially for litigators like Jacob and solo-practitioners like him as well. Let's help each other out and not let this happen again to one of our own. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7637960526696603209.post-23679645591714346182018-04-20T12:38:44.548-07:002018-04-20T12:38:44.548-07:004:17, I fail to see any wild inconsistency. All t...4:17, I fail to see any wild inconsistency. All those attorneys did indisputably sanctionable things and all got suspended. The suspensions were all 12-18 months except the longer ones where the attorneys had first been sent to jail for felonies. And in the 18-month one, there was a criminal prosecution but only probation. I think these are all reasonably consistent.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7637960526696603209.post-89245719137992379002018-04-20T12:26:41.126-07:002018-04-20T12:26:41.126-07:0011:03 you seem to know all of the circumstances su...11:03 you seem to know all of the circumstances surrounding this tragedy. It appears that you believe that the sole reason for this sad event was the Nevada ethics discipline. But that was coming to an end next month, and he would have resumed practicing. Why this happened now is truly sad.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7637960526696603209.post-51737779848463700862018-04-20T11:03:19.915-07:002018-04-20T11:03:19.915-07:00Irresponsible by people who knew him? Did you kno...Irresponsible by people who knew him? Did you know him? Did you talk to him? The New Jersey proceedings were not a concern on his mind because he was not actively practicing in NJ and believed that reciprocal discipline was the likely result. The personal litigation was likewise not a financial drain or something weighing heavy on him.<br /><br />What is irresponsible is you speculating "[t]here may have been additional unknown problems" when it sounds like you have no personal knowledge at all. Before you accuse people who actually knew him of being irresponsible, give us your personal knowledge upon which you level such accusations.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com