Friday, November 18, 2011

Friday Open Thread

Image from: here
The LV Sun is running an interesting article about bad lawyers.   

What else is going these days?

How many of you have to work through Thanksgiving?

How many of you end your billing year this month?  Hows that going?

23 comments:

  1. Jeanne Winkler ran the projector in the class of 97 Barbri class ... Professor Epstein must be be very disappointed

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  2. 2L out of state student here. I've been lucky enough to receive a SA position with a Las Vegas firm (and obviously plan on living there when I hopefully receive an offer). Wondering if anyone has any advice for me about the legal community, city, anything really.

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  3. which vegas firms have an sa program this year?

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  4. Alverson Taylor, obviously.

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  5. Obviously, I don't want to name the firm I'll be at, but there were maybe 7 or 8 Vegas firms that participated in OCI at my school.

    Luckily, I had read the WWL blog beforehand, and knew about Alverson Taylor. I did interview with them, and to call it a weird experience would be a huge understatement.

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  6. @2:24:

    You've just outed yourself as an out-of-towner 2L from BYU (or, possibly, Utah) with a SA position in 2012, who claims s/he isn't going to ATMS.

    Just how many of those do you suppose there could be?

    And where else do you think 7-8 Vegas firms would do OCI?

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  7. In six months, NewlyMintedAttorney needs to change his/her moniker. I believe you were minted at least a year ago.

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  8. @5:02,

    You believe correctly, but it was less than five years ago, so I'm still "new." Just ask anyone with a 5-digit bar number.

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  9. Ah yes, the zip code bar numbers.

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  10. I see the worst garbage coming through from OC with 4-digit #s. It's like they have forgotten how to write in the centuries since they went to law school. Frankly, my newest associate is a better writer than most any old-timer on the other side.

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  11. 11/19 2:14 PM,

    Unless you're in the Top 10 in your class (as in people, not percent), you should be grateful for any job in this economy, including at ATMS. I also had a weird experience with ATMS when I was job hunting, but if that had been the only offer, I would have gladly accepted it. Thankfully, something better worked out for me, but it just as easily could have been ATMS, or worse, no job at all. We shall see if, in May of 2013, you're still looking down your nose at working at ATMS.

    And Newly Minted is absolutely correct. How is the weather in Provo these days? You've probably narrowed your identity to around 20 people or so, which is certainly not wise.

    Here is the truth about the Vegas market from a first year associate. Finding a good job in Vegas isn't easy these days. It helps if you're from here or you're LDS (just being honest here). There are obviously a lot of alumni from BYU, so that should be helpful for you. There are even more LDS attorneys in town.

    I'm not aware of any firms besides ATMS that have SA programs any more, but that may have changed.

    I also agree with 3:22 PM. It's really just laziness. The laziest thing I see consistently from older attorneys are citations in motions that were clearly inserted after reading only the headnotes and not the case. That's basically giving opposing counsel a lob ball.

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  12. 2L here. Obviously, the hiring market there isn't as diverse as I originally thought, since you guys pegged me and my school pretty easily. Fortunately, there are a number of people from my school that are headed out there, but lesson learned.

    I wasn't trying to bash ATMS, and I agree with 2:14 that I should be grateful for any job in this market. I stand by my statement that my interview with them was odd, but if they had been my only option I would have been a lot luckier than a lot of my classmates. Anyway, I assure you I am sufficiently humbled, and I hope you all have a nice holiday.

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  13. I'm grateful this Thanksgiving that I graduated and passed the bar in 1995 and not in 2011. Back then, a top-third grad from a decent school could get good offers in Vegas from more than one firm, paid time off during the last three weeks of bar review, and a competitive salary. It sounds like those days are gone forever. Many want to blame only the economy, but there are other factors (Boyd being at the top of the list). Back then, the bar was only offered once per year (going back to that plan might improve the job market and reduce the State Bar's budget). Maybe I'm just being nostalgic, but it seems like practicing law in Las Vegas 15 years ago was more fun. Now that I've settled into my career, I am glad that I started when I did and am not trying to start out in this day and age.

    Now if I could only sell this house that I bought in 2005 . . .

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  14. Since you've already admitted you go to BYU, and this would be regularly obtainable for any BYU student: can you tell us what Vegas firms interviewed at your OCI?

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  15. The real 2L here. I'm not a BYU student, I'm a California Western student. Nice try though.

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  16. The younger lawyers are the best writers because they still care. The rest of us already know that nowbody really reads briefs, checks cites, etc. But for a couple of shining years, new lawyers are on top of their game! Too bad it takes so long to figure out what you're really writing about.

    I tip my hat to the youngsters, but I do agree that two bars per years is not helping new grads find jobs. I wouldn't want to be out there right now!

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  17. 1:48 - you must practice in state court. In federal court, the judges (or at least their clerks) read the briefs.

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  18. Agreed. In federal court you will find better attorneys who work harder and care more and that is because the judges read the briefs, know the law (or at least figure it out when they aren't sure) and make reasoned decisions. In state court people are sloppy because judges don't care don't read more than half the shit that gets filed. Attorneys can get away with being lazy. This is why the general level is practice in Nevada state court is so laughable. I love it when I see arrogant Las Vegas attorneys walk around like they are such hot shit. If they tried to practice the way they do in a state where judges are appointed based upon skill and resume (as opposed to being elected by the general public who knows almost nothing about how the justice system works or whether or not someone is qualified to sit as a judge), they would be considered shitty attorneys. I have seen attorneys practice in other states and I will tell you that the older attorneys there still care about the quality of work product--it's because they have to if they want to do well in front of qualified judges.

    CONGRATS to everyone who found jobs!

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  19. UNLV firms interview at Cal Western?

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  20. I meant VEGAS firms interview at Cal Western? It's been a long day.

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  21. Cal Western was known as 'UNLV South' before Boyd.

    I'm not sure about lawyers being better in federal court. I'm definately not sure the federal bench is all that much smarter. Maybe it seems that way because they have really short dockets and plenty of time to prepare.

    I'm in and out of both, and see good and bad lawyers alike. I do think that federal judges believe they are better. And the court rooms are much nicer.

    I also think nervous attorneys look all the more nervous standing at the podium:)

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  22. @2:14 - I'm a 3rd year associate in Las Vegas and I still look my nose down at ATMS. The only people in town who defend that firm are partners at ATMS.

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  23. How's the dyslexia?

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